When Werner manages to escape from the warehouse, there's no one more surprised than Mike, which leaves us wondering: How did Werner manage to fool the un-foolable?

On the latest episode of the Better Call Saul Insiders Podcast, the cast and creators discuss Werner's elaborate and technical plan to escape from under Mike's watchful eye. (Who knew you could zap cameras with laser pointers?) But while Werner showed plenty of resourcefulness, his scheme probably wouldn't have worked if Mike hadn't let his guard down a bit.

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"He's an adversary in a weird way for Mike, but he's not a bad guy in any sense of the word," show composer Dave Porter, who was among the special guests on this episode of the podcast. "You're rooting for him, even when you know ultimately by the end of this episode he's going to cause Mike such an enormous headache."

Hear what else the cast and creators have to say about Werner outsmarting Mike on the podcast. 

Plus, catch up on the latest full episode available now on amc.com and the AMC app for mobile, Fire TV, Xbox One, Apple TV, Roku and Chromecast.

Better Call Saul's Season 4 finale airs Monday at 9/8c. For the latest news and exclusives, sign up for the Insiders Club.